The Zodiac Killer Hoax – 65 – Generation Why

The Zodiac Killer Hoax. Was a serial killer terrorizing San Francisco in the late 1960′s? Why was he never caught, let alone identified? Professor and researcher Thomas Horan joined us to explain just how these murders added up to a “modus operandi” for a serial killer for some in the media, but not for law enforcement. If you have followed this case at all over the years, you’ll likely recognize the names of the players involved. From Zodiac the book to Zodiac the film, the facts of the case have largely remained the same. You might ask yourself, how could a killer be considered a hoax? Tune in and find out just how this story first got started and how it was perpetuated over time.

5 thoughts on “The Zodiac Killer Hoax – 65 – Generation Why

  1. Katy

    I loved this podcast. It always struck me as odd some of the logic leaps that investigators took in linking so-called Zodiac cases together. I’m on board with this theory.

    Reply
  2. K

    My thoughts on this:
    1. Serial Killers were nothing new, even back then. The only people who would make huge profit from some big mysterious serial killer is the press.
    2. Tom Voight takes full advantage of his site to make money, Michael Butterfield does not make a living out of this. What’s even Butterfield’s favorite suspect?
    3. Anyone even mildly familiar with the case knows that Robert Graysmith is a hack. And I believe that plenty of people already know how much of a horrible human being he is.
    4. Did LE just send the letters describing the scenes to the press themselves?
    5. Did Hartnell just imagine a guy with Z’s symbol on his chest?
    6. Did LE just mail people a piece of Paul Stine’s shirt for lols?
    7. LE has already proved that plenty of these letters were written by the same person. I think that the letters received after 1970 are suspect.
    8. Z or whoever shot those people at nearly point-blank range. I imagine that takes a lot of practice.
    9. He changed weapons, big deal. ALA, Graysmith’s favorite suspect, had ammo for several guns.
    10. Where the fuck did you hear all that stuff about Darlene? She was not freaking 007.
    11. So they had a prime suspect for the Lake Berryessa murder, but they never bothered to investigate him?
    12. Anything Mike Mageau says should be taken with a grain of salt. And if someone wanted him dead, why wasn’t he later targeted when they found out he survived?
    13. You believe that Z doesn’t exist, but you’re willing to believe convicts?
    14. You mentioned that there’s plenty of evidence that this is a hoax, where is it?
    15. Thomas Henry Horan is also making money off of pure speculation.

    And I could go on and on… Am I saying that there is no way in hell that you guys are right? No. But you’re gonna have a hard time making me or anyone else believe that so many people(including the police) were in on this elaborate hoax.

    Reply
    1. zodiachoax

      K: Thanks for your comments! Very helpful. I don’t know why people are so allergic to using their actual names, but what the heck, your comments are useful, anyway. Now, I realize that lots of people want to believe in Zodiac, Bigfoot, UFOs, Chupacabra, etc, no matter what. I’m not trying to change your mind or anyone else’s. But lots of people are interested in the truth, so here it is, point by point:

      My thoughts on this:
      “1. Serial Killers were nothing new, even back then. The only people who would make huge profit from some big mysterious serial killer is the press.” Exactly. And not “the press,” but specifically, the San Francisco Chronicle.
      “2. Tom Voigt takes full advantage of his site to make money, Michael Butterfield does not make a living out of this. What’s even Butterfield’s favorite suspect?” Oh, Butterfield has TRIED to be another Tom Voigt and Robert Graysmith, but not as successfully. No matter, except that, like Voigt and Graysmith, he has lied, distorted documents, etc.
      “3. Anyone even mildly familiar with the case knows that Robert Graysmith is a hack. And I believe that plenty of people already know how much of a horrible human being he is.” But until these documents became available, no one realized just how massively he had lied about the WHOLE THING.
      “4. Did LE just send the letters describing the scenes to the press themselves?” Did you listen to the podcasts? Have you read any of the stuff in my books or blogs? It’s tough to answer questions when people don’t bother to read stuff first. I end up retyping 100s of pages over and over and over. I realize that very often, these anonymous comments are coming from Voigt and Butterfield and others and their fans, but what the heck, I’ll point it out again, anyway: ONE COP, and ONE REPORTER. If you’re confused about that, try reading my FREE websites or listening to the FREE podcasts.
      “5. Did Hartnell just imagine a guy with Z’s symbol on his chest?” Again, if you’d bothered to read or listen to ANY of this stuff, you’d know that the Vallejo Times-Herald had published a photocopy of the ENTIRE FIRST LETTER, including the symbol, on their front page August 4. The Times-Herald was distributed in Napa county as well as Solano County. So, ANYONE who read that newspaper could have copied that symbol. And the handwriting. Is there any EVIDENCE to rule out a copycat? Especially since the MO is so different? Nope.
      “6. Did LE just mail people a piece of Paul Stine’s shirt for lols?” Again—ONE REPORTER. Keith Power of the Chronicle apparently, according to HIS OWN STORY, had access to Stine’s trip sheet. Funny thing is, SFPD didn’t, and still don’t. So, where did Keith Power get it? And why Graysmith lie about Power? In 1969, reporters monkeying around with evidence was still shockingly common, so yes, it is more than a little bit possible that Power ALSO made off with a couple pieces of Stine’s shirt. It would not have even been necessary to bribe a cop to get to it. It was lying on a countertop in the lab next to the evidence locker for a couple of hours unattended. In Mel Nicolai’s case summary/bulletin, he clearly indicates that ONLY TWO of those three pieces are considered evidence. The pages detailing WHY are still “missing.” But according the pattern of blots and stains on ALL THREE pieces, they were torn off the shirt sometime AFTER the body was removed from the cab. The only time that could have happened out of the presence of witnesses was when the shirt was in the lab, drying.
      “7. LE has already proved that plenty of these letters were written by the same person. I think that the letters received after 1970 are suspect.” Nope. According the ACTUAL FILES, the “expert” opinions, letter after letter, are, “maybe the same person, maybe not.” That wouldn’t hold up in court. And those expert opinions point out plenty of differences in addition to “similarities.” There is no arcane voodoo in handwriting “analysis.” Anyone can see with the naked eye that the handwriting changes after the fourth letter. What is more obvious, in the available color scans, is that the STROKES clearly change—and that’s pretty strong evidence of a second person. Nicolai seems to have thought that at least one letter containing a piece of Stine’s shirt was a fake, and the most obvious fake is the Belli letter. By far the most obvious person who could have faked the Belli letter is Graysmith himself, but it turns out that all the letters were a hoax.
      “8. Z or whoever shot those people at nearly point-blank range. I imagine that takes a lot of practice.” No, it doesn’t take any practice for a junky with the shakes to accidentally shoot Stine in the face. It does seem as though the shooter at LHR had killed before, but the sloppy work at BRS seems to indicate a first timer. There may have even been two shooters at BRS.
      “9. He changed weapons, big deal. ALA, Graysmith’s favorite suspect, had ammo for several guns.” It’s a big deal because, IF he had used the same weapon at least twice, THAT would prove SOME kind of connection between at least SOME of these murders. But there is NO actual evidence of ANY connection. Except the letters. But according to the ACTUAL files, not only are those letters less than convincing, not only do they show that the letters were a hoax, but by looking for a hoaxer INSTEAD of Zodiac, we find a person whose handwriting IS A PERFECT MATCH FOR THE FIRST THREE LETTERS and a reporter who, IN HIS OWN STORY, claims he had access to evidence in the Stine case. Reporter and evidence that Graysmith happens to lie about in his book. He tells a lot of lies that supposedly substantiates the authenticity of the letters, but for some bizarre reason, he lies about the one piece of evidence that WOULD HAVE substantiated one of Zodiac’s incorrect “facts.”
      “10. Where the fuck did you hear all that stuff about Darlene? She was not freaking 007.” What stuff? It’s clear you haven’t actually listened to the podcasts or read any of my material, so I have no idea how to answer this question. Her OWN BROTHER AND SISTER have said that Darlene went out to buy her brother a bag of weed, and that they lied to cops about that to cover their own asses.
      “11. So they had a prime suspect for the Lake Berryessa murder, but they never bothered to investigate him?” Yes, they investigated him. ACCORDING TO THE ACTUAL FILES THEMSELVES. I’m not saying there’s enough in these files to convict anybody of any of these murders, but a big part of the Zodiac myth propagated by Graysmith is that there were no good suspects. That’s bull. None of the suspects he discusses in his were viable, but there were GOOD suspects in most of these “unsolved” murders. Benicia PD have repeatedly declared the LHR shooting solved, Riverside PD have repeatedly declared the Bates murder solved, and according to their own files, the Ferrin murder looks pretty darned solved. Are they lying? Is there some pan-California police conspiracy to protect Zodiac?
      “12. Anything Mike Mageau says should be taken with a grain of salt. And if someone wanted him dead, why wasn’t he later targeted when they found out he survived?” Again, I don’t know what statements of Mageau’s you’re referring to, but one reason he wasn’t shot up again is that he left the state as soon as he could. Another reason is, he changed his story to corroborate the letters. A third reason is, he spent a good deal of his life in the slam. A fourth reason is, ACCORDING THE FILES, VPD pretty much solved the Ferrin murder. Conviction or not (Mike failed to identify his mug shot. As you yourself pointed out, he may have had a damned good reason,) the suspect knew better than to try again.
      “13. You believe that Z doesn’t exist, but you’re willing to believe convicts?” I don’t “believe” ANYTHING. All I’m doing is pointing out that, according to the ACTUAL FILES, the Zodiac theory has ZERO credibility, and that the letters were a BLATANTLY OBVIOUS hoax by ONE REPORTER and, apparently, ONE COP. Why? I don’t know. The first four letters point straight at some funny business at VPD and SFPD, but what Dear Editor was supposed to do about it, I don’t know. MAYBE they were intended to give someone an alibi for at least one murder, but I don’t think so. But maybe.
      “14. You mentioned that there’s plenty of evidence that this is a hoax, where is it?” IN THE ACTUAL FILES AND NEWSPAPER CLIPPINGS. And not just one or two niggling little things. EVERY PAGE adds up to ZERO Zodiacs and one BLATANT hoax. No one has to take my word for ANYTHING. I possess ZERO “secret” evidence. Read the files and clippings FOR YOURSELVES. All I’m doing is pointing out the obvious. If you, or ANYONE ELSE, see anything IN THESE FILES AND CLIPPINGS different from what I see, please let us know. Or, if you or anyone else (and lots of self-proclaimed Zodiac “experts” claim they can) can produce some of these missing pages, like the RESULTS of the ballistics check on Donald Warren ________’s P- P38, then please do. We’re all waiting. But, according to EVERY SCRAP of available documentation, there never was a Zodiac Killer and those letters were a hoax and Graysmith is a straight up fraud. Result: ZERO justice for these victims and their families. There is something wrong with that,
      “15. Thomas Henry Horan is also making money” WHAT MONEY?????? Please, send me some money. “off of pure speculation.” What speculation? READ THESE FILES AND CLIPPINGS FOR YOURSELF. You don’t need secret decoder goggles. It’s OBVIOUS.

      I’ll try again: According to the ACTUAL LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY FILES FROM FIVE POLICE DEPARTMENTS AND THE FBI, there is ZERO evidence to substantiate the Zodiac Myth, and ALL the evidence points straight at ONE COP and ONE REPORTER for creating a hoax consisting of “confession letters” mailed to the Chronicle. Read that stuff for yourself. It won’t kill you.

      I’m scheduled to discuss this with a Zodiac “expert” next month. Maybe HE can point to something, ANYTHING, that saves the Zodiac Myth from oblivion. I, for one, cannot wait.

      Reply
      1. K

        “What stuff? It’s clear you haven’t actually listened to the podcasts or read any of my material, so I have no idea how to answer this question. Her OWN BROTHER AND SISTER have said that Darlene went out to buy her brother a bag of weed, and that they lied to cops about that to cover their own asses.”

        Her being a secret informant for the police(unless I misheard). And everyone knows that her family is known for its credibility *facepalm*

        “But according the pattern of blots and stains on ALL THREE pieces, they were torn off the shirt sometime AFTER the body was removed from the cab”

        This is just ridiculous…

        “What speculation? READ THESE FILES AND CLIPPINGS FOR YOURSELF. You don’t need secret decoder goggles. It’s OBVIOUS. ”

        Your own interpretation of the evidence = speculation. The people who released that evidence don’t look at it the way you do.

        I actually have listened to the podcast, but I will admit that I haven’t looked through absolutely everything because I don’t really think it’s necessary since it will just repeat what you’ve said. And I asked most of those questions because I don’t buy this whole 2 guys were responsible for everything theory and was hoping for a different response, not just a repeat of the same things you’ve said before. Just like absolutely everyone else who claimed to solve this case, your interpretations are the only things that matter.

        If the FBI or anyone else was actually 100% certain that 2 guys were responsible for all of this, then they would have said so and put this mystery to rest. The fact that this case is still being investigated with 1 suspect in mind is the biggest blow to anyone who claims something like this. It’s been over 40 years, why would anyone continue this hoax? And l’ll repeat, the people investigating this case don’t interpret the evidence the way you do. But, just as you accuse anyone who disagrees with you of being uninformed or a fan of whoever, you’re just gonna stick to your own story regardless of what anyone says.

        Reply

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